From tmorselll at yahoo.com Mon Oct 1 13:21:50 2012 From: tmorselll at yahoo.com (Tony Morse) Date: Mon, 1 Oct 2012 13:21:50 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [gis_info] Workshop Announcement Message-ID: <1349122910.4463.YahooMailNeo@web112617.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> NASA and other organizations are sponsoring The Second Western States Workshop on Remote Sensing of Evapotranspiration, which will be held October 24-26 in Boise. The keynote speakers areAnne Castle (Assistant Secretary of the Interior for Water and Science)and Gerald Schroeder (former Chief Justice, Idaho Supreme Court). This year?s theme is ?Using Remote Sensing of ET to Reduce Costs and Improve Efficiency in Resource Management.? The workshop will work to develop a roadmap for using remote sensing of ET in legally defensible proceedings. ? On Oct 26, a half-day mini-workshop will be offered titled ?Introduction to METRIC Workshop? at the Idaho Water Center. This no-cost workshop will provide an overview of the general approach to implement the METRIC ET model. ? For more information and to register go to: http://www.westernstatesetworkshop.com. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From Pam.Nooyen at greshamoregon.gov Fri Oct 12 14:07:39 2012 From: Pam.Nooyen at greshamoregon.gov (Nooyen, Pam) Date: Fri, 12 Oct 2012 14:07:39 -0700 Subject: [gis_info] Portland Area Water/Wastewater GIS user Group Message-ID: Portland Area Water/Wastewater User Group Meeting Thursday, November 15th 9:00-10:45 a.m. Location: Metro Regional Center, 600 NE Grand Avenue, Portland OR, Room 370A Directions/Parking information: http://www.oregonmetro.gov/index.cfm/go/by.web/id=3315 Please join other utility GIS staff to discuss current projects and trends. Please forward this announcement to others that may have interest. AGENDA 9:00-9:15 p.m. - Introductions 9:15-9:45 p.m. - The City of Troutdale - Christine Cooley Amedzake "The City of Troutdale captured in an 8 hour drive" 9:45-10:15 p.m. - The City of Beaverton - Juston Manville "GIS Centric: a Case for interoperability" 10:15 - 10:45 - What do you want from your utility user group? Future topics and presentations? Wrap up, set date and location for next meeting Please contact me with questions. I look forward to seeing you at the meeting! Pam Pam Nooyen, GISP GIS Technician ~ Maps and Data Program The City of Gresham, Department of Environmental Services 1333 NW Eastman Parkway, Gresham OR 97030 (503) 618-2319 New Email: Pam.Nooyen at GreshamOregon.gov -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From mrnewdaddy at gmail.com Sat Oct 13 12:08:40 2012 From: mrnewdaddy at gmail.com (Jim) Date: Sat, 13 Oct 2012 12:08:40 -0700 Subject: [gis_info] Wasteful taxpayer spending Message-ID: Not another unneeded government meeting to talk about stuff that has been hashed out before. Sewer network modeling and the modeling of water doesn't change. Really? These meetings are on the backs of the under employed and unemployed as well as struggling family's. Ron Wyden help us out! Jim -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From Greg.Babinski at kingcounty.gov Sat Oct 13 12:49:02 2012 From: Greg.Babinski at kingcounty.gov (Babinski, Greg) Date: Sat, 13 Oct 2012 19:49:02 +0000 Subject: [gis_info] Portland Area Water/Wastewater GIS user Group In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <18937EF56FA8AB48B3B95A071DBF0F041B5D8B9D@MAILQDC2.kc.kingcounty.lcl> Pam... Thanks for organizing this. I am sorry that I will not be able to attend, but having worked for East Bay Municipal Utility District in Oakland and with King County Wastewater in Seattle, I know the importance of GIS for advanced water and sewer network modeling. These tools help agencies manage taxpayer investment in expensive infrastructure and make cost effective decisions to reduce the impact of aging infrastructure. I was on the Mercer Island utility board for many years, and even for an affluent community like that, the cost of replacing infrastructure that was poorly designed and cheaply built by developers in years past will be a huge burden on future taxpayers. GIS along with hydraulic modeling systems are proven tools for cost effective infrastructure management. I don't know if you are familiar with the King County GIS ROI study (http://www.kingcounty.gov/operations/GIS/News.aspx#0DE9BFDC7485452BAEAE929DF0076115) which demonstrated $776 million in financial benefits from KCGIS over 18 years and $87-180 million in benefits just in 2010. If you read the report, for King County the departments with the highest ROI include Wastewater Treatment. Meeting like your are important for citizens and taxpayers to reap the rewards that GIS can provide. Best regards.... Greg Babinski, MA, GISP Finance & Marketing Manager King County GIS Center URISA Past-President Summit Chief Editor ________________________________ From: gis_info-bounces at listsmart.osl.state.or.us [gis_info-bounces at listsmart.osl.state.or.us] on behalf of Nooyen, Pam [Pam.Nooyen at greshamoregon.gov] Sent: Friday, October 12, 2012 2:07 PM To: gis_info at listsmart.osl.state.or.us Subject: [gis_info] Portland Area Water/Wastewater GIS user Group Portland Area Water/Wastewater User Group Meeting Thursday, November 15th 9:00-10:45 a.m. Location: Metro Regional Center, 600 NE Grand Avenue, Portland OR, Room 370A Directions/Parking information: http://www.oregonmetro.gov/index.cfm/go/by.web/id=3315 Please join other utility GIS staff to discuss current projects and trends. Please forward this announcement to others that may have interest. AGENDA 9:00-9:15 p.m. ? Introductions 9:15-9:45 p.m. ? The City of Troutdale - Christine Cooley Amedzake ?The City of Troutdale captured in an 8 hour drive? 9:45-10:15 p.m. ? The City of Beaverton - Juston Manville ?GIS Centric: a Case for interoperability? 10:15 ? 10:45 ? What do you want from your utility user group? Future topics and presentations? Wrap up, set date and location for next meeting Please contact me with questions. I look forward to seeing you at the meeting! Pam Pam Nooyen, GISP GIS Technician ~ Maps and Data Program The City of Gresham, Department of Environmental Services 1333 NW Eastman Parkway, Gresham OR 97030 (503) 618-2319[X] New Email: Pam.Nooyen at GreshamOregon.gov -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From mrnewdaddy at gmail.com Sun Oct 14 11:37:00 2012 From: mrnewdaddy at gmail.com (Jim) Date: Sun, 14 Oct 2012 11:37:00 -0700 Subject: [gis_info] Citizen Engagement and Participation Message-ID: To the custodian of Oregon State listservs please allow public participation and engagement with respect to diversity and Open Gov as well as Open Oregon. Please do not censor and allow free public exchange, the same that email provides. Jim -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From mrnewdaddy at gmail.com Sun Oct 14 19:05:45 2012 From: mrnewdaddy at gmail.com (Jim) Date: Sun, 14 Oct 2012 19:05:45 -0700 Subject: [gis_info] Expectations of the Government GIS Community Message-ID: How many times are each agency: City, County, State, and Federal processing, creating, storing, backing up, generating and purchasing maintenance contracts on software while working on the same geospatial data? Building footprints is a simple example. Another more relevant issue is Lidar. How many times is a DEM, DTM, or DSM is being generated from the very same players and why, it just needs to get built once. If I procured a DEM from each level of government and compared the similarities and differences between them what would the standard deviations, if any. Citizens, like members of this list, expect that the geospatial community is following professional ethics and following good judgement when it comes to expending taxpayer funds. I talk with the IT folks and they tell me that a position (a Gee Spot) they call it, is something that never changes but what does is the complexity of the software that is supposed to organize it. Sure they say, over beers, that there is relatively minor changes to the built environment, sure there are some. The changes to the 5% of the total inventory does not warrent 95% of the business strategy including support. They site that the cost to serve geospatial is the most costly of most of the data IT is responsable for and because of that cost and the complexitys really warrants a different approach, they said paper maps were not such a bad idea, and prior to GIS engineers were doing just fine. Jim -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From rachel.smith at dogami.state.or.us Mon Oct 15 08:39:02 2012 From: rachel.smith at dogami.state.or.us (Rachel Smith) Date: Mon, 15 Oct 2012 08:39:02 -0700 Subject: [gis_info] Expectations of the Government GIS Community In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <0481A056C1A53A49B96EB1B744989298010D8A45@mail.dogami.state.or.us> Jim, Lucky for GIS practitioners, engineers aren't the only group of individuals we support. I don't think I need to explain how and why GIS is needed, and all of the individuals or groups that need and use GIS and the data we create. But if so, then I'm sure there will be plenty of people who are on this list to add to that discussion. Your points are good ones and they are exactly what many of us discuss on a regular basis. Distribution and sharing of data, duplication of data creation, authoritative sets of data, etc... are all issues that we're trying to work out and are indeed a struggle for all of the agencies. But even though we haven't found a solution to these issues, that does not mean that we have no professional ethics. There are no easy solutions otherwise we would have implemented them by now. I certainly don't have all of the answers, but I can tell you that we're well aware of these problems and are continually working to find better avenues/platforms/portals for distributing and sharing data, and working to increase the awareness of GIS related activities that are happening across the agencies to prevent duplication of effort. Rachel Lyles Smith, GISP Project Operations Manager Geologic Survey & Services Oregon Department of Geology & Mineral Industries 800 NE Oregon St. #28, Suite 965 Portland, OR 97232 971-673-0481 direct 971-673-1555 main 971-673-1562 fax http://www.oregongeology.org/sub/default.htm From: gis_info-bounces at listsmart.osl.state.or.us [mailto:gis_info-bounces at listsmart.osl.state.or.us] On Behalf Of Jim Sent: Sunday, October 14, 2012 7:06 PM To: gis_info at listsmart.osl.state.or.us Subject: [gis_info] Expectations of the Government GIS Community How many times are each agency: City, County, State, and Federal processing, creating, storing, backing up, generating and purchasing maintenance contracts on software while working on the same geospatial data? Building footprints is a simple example. Another more relevant issue is Lidar. How many times is a DEM, DTM, or DSM is being generated from the very same players and why, it just needs to get built once. If I procured a DEM from each level of government and compared the similarities and differences between them what would the standard deviations, if any. Citizens, like members of this list, expect that the geospatial community is following professional ethics and following good judgement when it comes to expending taxpayer funds. I talk with the IT folks and they tell me that a position (a Gee Spot) they call it, is something that never changes but what does is the complexity of the software that is supposed to organize it. Sure they say, over beers, that there is relatively minor changes to the built environment, sure there are some. The changes to the 5% of the total inventory does not warrent 95% of the business strategy including support. They site that the cost to serve geospatial is the most costly of most of the data IT is responsable for and because of that cost and the complexitys really warrants a different approach, they said paper maps were not such a bad idea, and prior to GIS engineers were doing just fine. Jim -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From brian at wildsong.biz Mon Oct 15 11:07:37 2012 From: brian at wildsong.biz (Brian H Wilson) Date: Mon, 15 Oct 2012 11:07:37 -0700 Subject: [gis_info] Wasteful taxpayer spending In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <507C50E9.7070607@wildsong.biz> On 10/13/2012 12:08 PM, Jim wrote: > Not another unneeded government meeting to talk about stuff that has > been hashed out before. Sewer network modeling and the modeling of > water doesn't change. Really? These meetings are on the backs of the > under employed and unemployed as well as struggling family's. Ron Wyden > help us out! > > Jim Disclaimer: I am a GIS software developer, not a wastewater person, and I spent the weekend at the State of the Map conference. Arguably another "unneeded meeting"? Due to computing advances I can do things easily now with GIS and models now that I did not dream of trying 5 years ago. My computer would have curled into a ball and died if I tried. The same will be true 5 years from now, and these "unneeded government meetings" help us all get ready for it. We are currently using GIS, LiDAR, etc to eliminate the need for some low level jobs literally digging ditches and some mid-level jobs doing field level engineering. The dollar cost benefit is direct and it is big. We are barely even getting our heads wrapped around what we can do now with these tools. Alas the human cost is big, too. Retraining to become a "knowledge worker" is a painful fantasy for most. If you do retrain and become a GISer (as I did almost 10 years ago) you must now compete with the legions of GIS students OSU churns out every May for the tiny number of GIS positions in Oregon. I feel very lucky to have GIS work here, I have friends who have been looking for years now. Most displaced workers are waiting patiently for their 20th century jobs to "return" when the economy "gets better". Many are banking on the next president to fix everything. This will not happen, because we need a fundamentally different approach to economics, and that's WAAAAYYYYY off topic for this list. :-) If you have suggestions Jim and want to talk, you should probably write to me directly! What are we to do? I have struggled with this dilemma for my entire 30+ year career in computing. We can't go backwards. Welcome to the world of automation, Brian Wilson Corvallis Oregon From rachel.smith at dogami.state.or.us Mon Oct 15 12:26:08 2012 From: rachel.smith at dogami.state.or.us (Rachel Smith) Date: Mon, 15 Oct 2012 12:26:08 -0700 Subject: [gis_info] Cannon vs. HP plotter? Message-ID: <0481A056C1A53A49B96EB1B744989298010D8ACB@mail.dogami.state.or.us> Hi Everyone, We are currently looking to replace our HP 60" plotter and are looking at the new HP Z6200 and the new Cannon 9400 60" plotter. Have any of you used either the new Cannon 9400 or the 8400? If so, what was your experience? lots of maintenance calls or not? used in a production environment? great print quality? I'm pretty hesitant to switch brands after using the HP which has been very dependable for the last 8-9 years. Just looking for feedback/opinions. Thanks! Rachel Rachel Lyles Smith, GISP Project Operations Manager Geologic Survey & Services **Email change notice: please update your contact list to reflect my new email address: rachel.smith at dogami.state.or.us Oregon Department of Geology & Mineral Industries 800 NE Oregon St. #28, Suite 965 Portland, OR 97232 971-673-0481 direct 971-673-1555 main 971-673-1562 fax http://www.oregongeology.org/sub/default.htm -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From rachel.smith at dogami.state.or.us Mon Oct 15 12:28:48 2012 From: rachel.smith at dogami.state.or.us (Rachel Smith) Date: Mon, 15 Oct 2012 12:28:48 -0700 Subject: [gis_info] Cannon vs. HP plotter? In-Reply-To: <0481A056C1A53A49B96EB1B744989298010D8ACB@mail.dogami.state.or.us> References: <0481A056C1A53A49B96EB1B744989298010D8ACB@mail.dogami.state.or.us> Message-ID: <0481A056C1A53A49B96EB1B744989298010D8ACD@mail.dogami.state.or.us> Forgot to mention.... please reply to me and I'll summarize any/all responses for the group. Thanks. Rachel From: gis_info-bounces at listsmart.osl.state.or.us [mailto:gis_info-bounces at listsmart.osl.state.or.us] On Behalf Of Rachel Smith Sent: Monday, October 15, 2012 12:26 PM To: gis_info at listsmart.osl.state.or.us Subject: [gis_info] Cannon vs. HP plotter? Hi Everyone, We are currently looking to replace our HP 60" plotter and are looking at the new HP Z6200 and the new Cannon 9400 60" plotter. Have any of you used either the new Cannon 9400 or the 8400? If so, what was your experience? lots of maintenance calls or not? used in a production environment? great print quality? I'm pretty hesitant to switch brands after using the HP which has been very dependable for the last 8-9 years. Just looking for feedback/opinions. Thanks! Rachel Rachel Lyles Smith, GISP Project Operations Manager Geologic Survey & Services **Email change notice: please update your contact list to reflect my new email address: rachel.smith at dogami.state.or.us Oregon Department of Geology & Mineral Industries 800 NE Oregon St. #28, Suite 965 Portland, OR 97232 971-673-0481 direct 971-673-1555 main 971-673-1562 fax http://www.oregongeology.org/sub/default.htm -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From rachel.smith at dogami.state.or.us Tue Oct 16 09:35:35 2012 From: rachel.smith at dogami.state.or.us (Rachel Smith) Date: Tue, 16 Oct 2012 09:35:35 -0700 Subject: [gis_info] summary of responses: Cannon vs. HP plotter Message-ID: <0481A056C1A53A49B96EB1B744989298010D8BB7@mail.dogami.state.or.us> Here is a summary of the responses I received yesterday and this morning for my request for information regarding Cannon and HP plotters. I used the Canon 8400 at the City of Lebanon and I was completely amazed. It was faster and easier to use than any HP I had seen and way better quality than the HP 800 or 1055 that I have used in recent years. I have not used the HP you are looking though, I'm assuming their technology and usability has kept up with Canon. I guess I would ask, how often do you really need 60" capacity? We have an HP 4500, normally we plot at 36" but it can also accommodate 42" and has dual-roll capacity. Has been very solid for us, but we did just replace the cutter and belt and cooling fan, at total cost of around $650 (parts and labor). That's the only maintenance we've needed in at least 5 or 6 years, so can't really complain about that. We have received excellent service from A&E Imaging, I believe they are located in Beaverton. We use the Canon iPF750 and I love it. I can't speak to the model you are referring to but this Canon produces high quality large format products, is quick, quiet, and user-friendly. I met a local vendor (Craig with CAES here in Portland) at a GIS in Action conference and called him up when we needed a large-format printer. They deliver for free and come out that day when you need ink/paper etc, or even to give your office a tutorial. If you decide to go with Canon, I would suggest you talk to them. Canons are now outpacing HP and a lot of the shops in town (PSU, local municipalities, etc) have made the switch. We have only purchased Canon plotters since 2008, and had more than a dozen HP units at that time. I wouldn't go back to HP, the Canon machines have been great. You do need to have spare parts like print heads and ink, but everything is easy to swap out. Summary: Cheap Fast to start printing Fast to finish printing Good color Easy to maintain Good queuing software Thanks to everyone who responded! Rachel Rachel Lyles Smith, GISP Project Operations Manager Geologic Survey & Services Oregon Department of Geology & Mineral Industries 800 NE Oregon St. #28, Suite 965 Portland, OR 97232 971-673-0481 direct 971-673-1555 main 971-673-1562 fax http://www.oregongeology.org/sub/default.htm -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From mrnewdaddy at gmail.com Tue Oct 16 12:22:47 2012 From: mrnewdaddy at gmail.com (Jim) Date: Tue, 16 Oct 2012 12:22:47 -0700 Subject: [gis_info] Shared State Resources Message-ID: I'm hoping that the plotter that you speak of can be shared by other State agencies both in use and cost. There is not much use to own a 60" plotter, contract that out, the paper is very expensive- especially photo and high gloss. With pdf prevailing along with LCD projectors and costs dropping on projectors, I'm not sure why a full time plotter is warranted. Jim -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From cy.smith at state.or.us Tue Oct 16 12:25:48 2012 From: cy.smith at state.or.us (SMITH Cy * CIO) Date: Tue, 16 Oct 2012 19:25:48 +0000 Subject: [gis_info] Shared State Resources In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1153D380A8408D40A473EDB6B63869D33509CCFB@WPDASEXCL01.ad.state.or.us> Again, this is not an appropriate message for this listserver. If you insist on continuing this kind of inappropriate use of the listserv, you will be unsubscribed. This listserv is not for public comment on government business. There are other venues for that sort of comment. cy Cy Smith, GISP, Oregon State GIO DAS/CIO Geospatial Enterprise Office Secretary, Coalition of Geospatial Organizations (COGO) Past President, Urban & Regional Info Sys Assoc (URISA) Past President, Natl States Geographic Info Council (NSGIC) 503-378-6066 http://gis.oregon.gov From: gis_info-bounces at listsmart.osl.state.or.us [mailto:gis_info-bounces at listsmart.osl.state.or.us] On Behalf Of Jim Sent: Tuesday, October 16, 2012 12:23 PM To: gis_info at listsmart.osl.state.or.us Subject: [gis_info] Shared State Resources I'm hoping that the plotter that you speak of can be shared by other State agencies both in use and cost. There is not much use to own a 60" plotter, contract that out, the paper is very expensive- especially photo and high gloss. With pdf prevailing along with LCD projectors and costs dropping on projectors, I'm not sure why a full time plotter is warranted. Jim -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From mrnewdaddy at gmail.com Tue Oct 16 15:49:50 2012 From: mrnewdaddy at gmail.com (Jim) Date: Tue, 16 Oct 2012 15:49:50 -0700 Subject: [gis_info] 2012 Dev Meet Up Evaluation Message-ID: Don't forget to fill out your eval! http://surveys2.esri.com/s3/2012-Dev-Meet-Up-Evaluation -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From mrnewdaddy at gmail.com Tue Oct 16 19:08:26 2012 From: mrnewdaddy at gmail.com (Jim) Date: Tue, 16 Oct 2012 19:08:26 -0700 Subject: [gis_info] Censorship In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: To the listserv folks beyond the moderator. Please do not censor, restrict, or interfere with contribution as citizens with and in State list serv publications. The citizens have a right to participate in however or whatever means within the State government as confirmed by council. If there are constraints for participation in the form of documentation, that is readily understood, of expectations by the mode, method, or otherwise provide universal framework to participate, the people want to hear it. Jim -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From g.e.newkirk at msn.com Tue Oct 16 19:51:14 2012 From: g.e.newkirk at msn.com (Greg and Ericka Newkirk) Date: Tue, 16 Oct 2012 20:51:14 -0600 Subject: [gis_info] Censorship Message-ID: Wrong forum Jim. Take it somewhere else. Sent from my Windows Phone ________________________________ From: Jim Sent: 10/16/2012 8:08 PM To: gis_info at listsmart.osl.state.or.us Subject: [gis_info] Censorship To the listserv folks beyond the moderator. Please do not censor, restrict, or interfere with contribution as citizens with and in State list serv publications. The citizens have a right to participate in however or whatever means within the State government as confirmed by council. If there are constraints for participation in the form of documentation, that is readily understood, of expectations by the mode, method, or otherwise provide universal framework to participate, the people want to hear it. Jim -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- _____________________________________________________ gis_info mailing list gis_info at listsmart.osl.state.or.us http://listsmart.osl.state.or.us/mailman/listinfo/gis_info Hosted by the Oregon State Library. The Library is not responsible for content. Questions related to message content should be directed to list owner(s) or the sender of the message, by phone or email. Technical questions? Call 503-378-8800. From mrnewdaddy at gmail.com Tue Oct 16 20:05:55 2012 From: mrnewdaddy at gmail.com (Jim) Date: Tue, 16 Oct 2012 20:05:55 -0700 Subject: [gis_info] Censorship In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: I however feel both ways, I see government at all levels within the GIS discipline having multiple meetings and training opportunities about things that already have closed doors. Linear referencing, modeling, geometric networks, topologies, etc.. this has already been hashed out. The only new thing is where to find the tools in the newest update. There is tremendous misinformation about how or if sharing is actually taken place. My point of view and opinion is very much GIS orientated and at the citizen level. The thing that the State cannot do is limit participation at the citizen level. I don't mind going to court about it nor sending feedback to the Secretary of State. Bring it! Get Up Stand Up, Fight for Your Right! Jim On Oct 16, 2012 7:48 PM, "D'Anne Hammond" wrote: > Jim, > > I am all for citizen participation in government. However, I agree with > our administrator that THIS is not the appropriate forum for your topics. > Within the [gis_info] listserv we are subscribing to gis-related > announcements like upcoming workshops, updates on available data, position > announcements, info on technical workarounds, etc. > > A different listserv, geared specifically toward citizen participation in > the management of the state as an organization, would be a more appropriate > list for your discussions on the inadequacies and inefficiencies that may > exist within/between government entities. > > Thanks for seeking out an alternative source (list) to vent your > frustrations and perhaps you will make a difference; it?s just not going to > happen through the [gis_info] listserv. Notice I did not post my > two-cents on [gis_info], this is because it?s not the right forum for this > discussion. Your not being censored, you?re just posting in the wrong > place. > > Cheers. > > > > > On 10/16/12 7:08 PM, "Jim" wrote: > > To the listserv folks beyond the moderator. Please do not censor, > restrict, or interfere with contribution as citizens with and in State list > serv publications. The citizens have a right to participate in however or > whatever means within the State government as confirmed by council. If > there are constraints for participation in the form of documentation, that > is readily understood, of expectations by the mode, method, or otherwise > provide universal framework to participate, the people want to hear it. > > Jim > > ------------------------------ > _____________________________________________________ > gis_info mailing list > gis_info at listsmart.osl.state.or.us > http://listsmart.osl.state.or.us/mailman/listinfo/gis_info > Hosted by the Oregon State Library. The Library is not responsible for > content. > Questions related to message content should be directed to list owner(s) > or the sender of the message, by phone or email. > Technical questions? Call 503-378-8800. > > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From john.whiddon at gmail.com Tue Oct 16 20:05:56 2012 From: john.whiddon at gmail.com (Johnny Whiddon) Date: Tue, 16 Oct 2012 23:05:56 -0400 Subject: [gis_info] Censorship In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <50915574-15E3-45CA-8656-BB6B9921E0A9@gmail.com> Seconded. On Oct 16, 2012, at 10:51 PM, Greg and Ericka Newkirk wrote: > Wrong forum Jim. Take it somewhere else. > > Sent from my Windows Phone > From: Jim > Sent: 10/16/2012 8:08 PM > To: gis_info at listsmart.osl.state.or.us > Subject: [gis_info] Censorship > > To the listserv folks beyond the moderator. Please do not censor, restrict, or interfere with contribution as citizens with and in State list serv publications. The citizens have a right to participate in however or whatever means within the State government as confirmed by council. If there are constraints for participation in the form of documentation, that is readily understood, of expectations by the mode, method, or otherwise provide universal framework to participate, the people want to hear it. > > Jim > > _____________________________________________________ > gis_info mailing list > gis_info at listsmart.osl.state.or.us > http://listsmart.osl.state.or.us/mailman/listinfo/gis_info > Hosted by the Oregon State Library. The Library is not responsible for content. > Questions related to message content should be directed to list owner(s) or the sender of the message, by phone or email. > Technical questions? Call 503-378-8800. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From hamm at casco.net Tue Oct 16 20:19:13 2012 From: hamm at casco.net (D'Anne Hammond) Date: Tue, 16 Oct 2012 20:19:13 -0700 Subject: [gis_info] Censorship In-Reply-To: <50915574-15E3-45CA-8656-BB6B9921E0A9@gmail.com> Message-ID: I concur. On 10/16/12 8:05 PM, "Johnny Whiddon" wrote: > Seconded. > > > On Oct 16, 2012, at 10:51 PM, Greg and Ericka Newkirk > wrote: > >> Wrong forum Jim. Take it somewhere else. >> >> Sent from my Windows Phone >> >> From: Jim >> Sent: 10/16/2012 8:08 PM >> To: gis_info at listsmart.osl.state.or.us >> Subject: [gis_info] Censorship >> >> To the listserv folks beyond the moderator. Please do not censor, restrict, >> or interfere with contribution as citizens with and in State list serv >> publications. The citizens have a right to participate in however or >> whatever means within the State government as confirmed by council. If there >> are constraints for participation in the form of documentation, that is >> readily understood, of expectations by the mode, method, or otherwise provide >> universal framework to participate, the people want to hear it. >> >> Jim >> >> _____________________________________________________ >> gis_info mailing list >> gis_info at listsmart.osl.state.or.us >> http://listsmart.osl.state.or.us/mailman/listinfo/gis_info >> Hosted by the Oregon State Library. The Library is not responsible for >> content. >> Questions related to message content should be directed to list owner(s) or >> the sender of the message, by phone or email. >> Technical questions? Call 503-378-8800. > > > _____________________________________________________ > gis_info mailing list > gis_info at listsmart.osl.state.or.us > http://listsmart.osl.state.or.us/mailman/listinfo/gis_info > Hosted by the Oregon State Library. The Library is not responsible for > content. > Questions related to message content should be directed to list owner(s) or > the sender of the message, by phone or email. > Technical questions? Call 503-378-8800. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From mrnewdaddy at gmail.com Tue Oct 16 20:35:23 2012 From: mrnewdaddy at gmail.com (Jim) Date: Tue, 16 Oct 2012 20:35:23 -0700 Subject: [gis_info] Censorship, GIS, and the smoke and mirrors.. Message-ID: The GIS discipline cannot change with the times without differences in perspective. Through the navigation of different perspectives one or many can discern a road map, otherwise known as a needs assessment of a project. The project is effectiveness measured by accountability and progress of the GIS discipline. I have to call it, GIS, a discipline because it is NOT a licenced profession, but at the same time it acts like it is. Guys, I love GIS, but the politics are too much. Some folks in my group, making money hand over fist, see it as no different than Microsoft Office and this is because of government mismanagement. Some say.. Jim On Oct 16, 2012 8:15 PM, "D'Anne Hammond" wrote: > I concur. > > > On 10/16/12 8:05 PM, "Johnny Whiddon" wrote: > > Seconded. > > > On Oct 16, 2012, at 10:51 PM, Greg and Ericka Newkirk > wrote: > > Wrong forum Jim. Take it somewhere else. > > Sent from my Windows Phone > ------------------------------ > From: Jim > Sent: 10/16/2012 8:08 PM > To: gis_info at listsmart.osl.state.or.us > Subject: [gis_info] Censorship > > To the listserv folks beyond the moderator. Please do not censor, > restrict, or interfere with contribution as citizens with and in State list > serv publications. The citizens have a right to participate in however or > whatever means within the State government as confirmed by council. If > there are constraints for participation in the form of documentation, that > is readily understood, of expectations by the mode, method, or otherwise > provide universal framework to participate, the people want to hear it. > > Jim > > _____________________________________________________ > gis_info mailing list > gis_info at listsmart.osl.state.or.us > http://listsmart.osl.state.or.us/mailman/listinfo/gis_info > Hosted by the Oregon State Library. The Library is not responsible for > content. > Questions related to message content should be directed to list owner(s) > or the sender of the message, by phone or email. > Technical questions? Call 503-378-8800. > > > ------------------------------ > _____________________________________________________ > gis_info mailing list > gis_info at listsmart.osl.state.or.us > http://listsmart.osl.state.or.us/mailman/listinfo/gis_info > Hosted by the Oregon State Library. The Library is not responsible for > content. > Questions related to message content should be directed to list owner(s) > or the sender of the message, by phone or email. > Technical questions? Call 503-378-8800. > > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From mrnewdaddy at gmail.com Tue Oct 16 20:46:00 2012 From: mrnewdaddy at gmail.com (Jim) Date: Tue, 16 Oct 2012 20:46:00 -0700 Subject: [gis_info] Being Unpopular but doing the right thing Message-ID: As I expected I am becoming unpopular, shucks-this almost hurts my feelings. The fact is that I expect this reaction, furthermore the very same folks trying to expell me are the ones enjoying a day or partial day off from work to go to an unnecessary meeting, (indirect costs always higher than direct costs) thinking that more than 60% of members to this list are government folks, and are lurking to find the next meeting to attend. Stop the waste on the backs of taxpayers, both struggling, underemployed, and unemployed!!! Private Sector move in!! Jim -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From sarah.marvin at state.or.us Tue Oct 16 21:06:35 2012 From: sarah.marvin at state.or.us (Marvin, Sarah) Date: Wed, 17 Oct 2012 04:06:35 +0000 Subject: [gis_info] Being Unpopular but doing the right thing In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <296D7F6B690DAE4BB7607E03DB123B4A2566A66B@DLCDSXCH05.dlcd.state.or.us> Please take the politics to the rest of the internet where there are boundless opportunities to complain. This needs to remain a technical forum or busy people will have to direct it to spam. ________________________________ From: gis_info-bounces at listsmart.osl.state.or.us To: gis_info at listsmart.osl.state.or.us Sent: Tue Oct 16 20:46:00 2012 Subject: [gis_info] Being Unpopular but doing the right thing As I expected I am becoming unpopular, shucks-this almost hurts my feelings. The fact is that I expect this reaction, furthermore the very same folks trying to expell me are the ones enjoying a day or partial day off from work to go to an unnecessary meeting, (indirect costs always higher than direct costs) thinking that more than 60% of members to this list are government folks, and are lurking to find the next meeting to attend. Stop the waste on the backs of taxpayers, both struggling, underemployed, and unemployed!!! Private Sector move in!! Jim -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From mrnewdaddy at gmail.com Tue Oct 16 21:23:21 2012 From: mrnewdaddy at gmail.com (Jim) Date: Tue, 16 Oct 2012 21:23:21 -0700 Subject: [gis_info] I'm here to stay In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Sorry if some of you government folks are not used to the citizen level of participation. Government folks call us "Watch Dogs". Whatever name you give it is fine with me, doesn't really matter. If you are employed by a government agency, fine, enjoy the frolicking, that without oversight, you are Entitled! But the conflict is that you are a citizen as well. So while GIS practitioners within government have gainful employment with excellent benefits they along with others have no problem with abusing the system on the backs of citizens. Why is this happening? It's because the only thing an agency wants is to be funded, without great regard to services to citizens or how they're measured in terms of accountability and effectiveness of the very same funds that they are graced with. Jim -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From mrnewdaddy at gmail.com Tue Oct 16 21:35:36 2012 From: mrnewdaddy at gmail.com (Jim) Date: Tue, 16 Oct 2012 21:35:36 -0700 Subject: [gis_info] Being Unpopular but doing the right thing In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Allison, I'm not as bitter as you might think. Simply, I have just woke up to what's going on. Most folks new to GIS find it as a stepping stone to something else after a short time. It is not an occupation, well some folks think it is, it is rather a discipline. You can download QGIS at home for free and learn what you need to in two weeks, differently but in the same way as your expensive college education. For me I'm doing very well I just need to work for two weeks out of the month, depending. Everybody else has to put in 40hrs a week to get by and pay on their student loans. Jim On Oct 16, 2012 9:12 PM, "Allison Jones" wrote: > Jim, > > I am in the private sector, a recent college graduate who just recently > started my career profession in GIS and Lidar. Surveying is dead Jim. > Move on. The govt is slowly shrinking by lack of funds, ie: they aren't > replacing those that are getting early retirement. If you can't find work > it might be due to: a: your lack of current marketable skills, and b: your > bad attitude. Networking is crucial in this business (that's how I got my > first job) and this state/town/city is very small when you start meeting > people. > > I hope you can figure it out so that you aren't bitter your whole life. > > > > On Tue, Oct 16, 2012 at 8:46 PM, Jim wrote: > >> As I expected I am becoming unpopular, shucks-this almost hurts my >> feelings. >> >> The fact is that I expect this reaction, furthermore the very same folks >> trying to expell me are the ones enjoying a day or partial day off from >> work to go to an unnecessary meeting, (indirect costs always higher than >> direct costs) thinking that more than 60% of members to this list are >> government folks, and are lurking to find the next meeting to attend. Stop >> the waste on the backs of taxpayers, both struggling, underemployed, and >> unemployed!!! Private Sector move in!! >> >> Jim >> >> _____________________________________________________ >> gis_info mailing list >> gis_info at listsmart.osl.state.or.us >> http://listsmart.osl.state.or.us/mailman/listinfo/gis_info >> Hosted by the Oregon State Library. The Library is not responsible for >> content. >> Questions related to message content should be directed to list owner(s) >> or the sender of the message, by phone or email. >> Technical questions? Call 503-378-8800. >> >> > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From Craig.Thomas at calibresys.com Tue Oct 16 21:41:40 2012 From: Craig.Thomas at calibresys.com (Thomas, Craig) Date: Wed, 17 Oct 2012 04:41:40 +0000 Subject: [gis_info] Being Unpopular but doing the right thing In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20121017044143.2FEF619985D3@swiki.osl.state.or.us> Friends, "Jim" is a troll, trying to ruin a perfectly good listserv. Please stop sending email to him or responding to his posts. Maybe he will go away. If not, we can just all delete his email and continue to use this fine listserv as we have been. Sorry to respond to his post. Craig Craig Thomas Director Energy Programs & Operations CALIBRE Ph: 703.600.4309 Cell: 703.859.3377 www.calibresys.com From: gis_info-bounces at listsmart.osl.state.or.us [mailto:gis_info-bounces at listsmart.osl.state.or.us] On Behalf Of Jim Sent: Wednesday, October 17, 2012 12:36 AM To: Allison Jones; gis_info at listsmart.osl.state.or.us Subject: Re: [gis_info] Being Unpopular but doing the right thing Allison, I'm not as bitter as you might think. Simply, I have just woke up to what's going on. Most folks new to GIS find it as a stepping stone to something else after a short time. It is not an occupation, well some folks think it is, it is rather a discipline. You can download QGIS at home for free and learn what you need to in two weeks, differently but in the same way as your expensive college education. For me I'm doing very well I just need to work for two weeks out of the month, depending. Everybody else has to put in 40hrs a week to get by and pay on their student loans. Jim On Oct 16, 2012 9:12 PM, "Allison Jones" > wrote: Jim, I am in the private sector, a recent college graduate who just recently started my career profession in GIS and Lidar. Surveying is dead Jim. Move on. The govt is slowly shrinking by lack of funds, ie: they aren't replacing those that are getting early retirement. If you can't find work it might be due to: a: your lack of current marketable skills, and b: your bad attitude. Networking is crucial in this business (that's how I got my first job) and this state/town/city is very small when you start meeting people. I hope you can figure it out so that you aren't bitter your whole life. On Tue, Oct 16, 2012 at 8:46 PM, Jim > wrote: As I expected I am becoming unpopular, shucks-this almost hurts my feelings. The fact is that I expect this reaction, furthermore the very same folks trying to expell me are the ones enjoying a day or partial day off from work to go to an unnecessary meeting, (indirect costs always higher than direct costs) thinking that more than 60% of members to this list are government folks, and are lurking to find the next meeting to attend. Stop the waste on the backs of taxpayers, both struggling, underemployed, and unemployed!!! Private Sector move in!! Jim _____________________________________________________ gis_info mailing list gis_info at listsmart.osl.state.or.us http://listsmart.osl.state.or.us/mailman/listinfo/gis_info Hosted by the Oregon State Library. The Library is not responsible for content. Questions related to message content should be directed to list owner(s) or the sender of the message, by phone or email. Technical questions? Call 503-378-8800. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From mrnewdaddy at gmail.com Tue Oct 16 21:56:31 2012 From: mrnewdaddy at gmail.com (Jim) Date: Tue, 16 Oct 2012 21:56:31 -0700 Subject: [gis_info] Sorry here to stay Message-ID: Sorry if I have interrupted the norm of this list serv. Crap. I have the right to read It as well as participate within it just like everyone else on the internet. Sorry if your boss also follows it and learns a different, citizen, point of view and maybe that conflicts your operations. My thing is exactly like being pulled over by the police while driving. If you don't have anything to hide then there is no problem. Jim -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From mrnewdaddy at gmail.com Tue Oct 16 22:24:27 2012 From: mrnewdaddy at gmail.com (Jim) Date: Tue, 16 Oct 2012 22:24:27 -0700 Subject: [gis_info] GIS Marker Message-ID: I am glad folks have food for thought in terms of differences in opinion and belief in the GIS discipline. My LinkedIn page has been flying off the hook! Jim -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From mrnewdaddy at gmail.com Tue Oct 16 22:29:19 2012 From: mrnewdaddy at gmail.com (Jim) Date: Tue, 16 Oct 2012 22:29:19 -0700 Subject: [gis_info] GIS Sharks Message-ID: If you can't or be willing to swim with the GIS SHARKS then stay on the dock! Jim -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From mrnewdaddy at gmail.com Tue Oct 16 22:33:46 2012 From: mrnewdaddy at gmail.com (Jim) Date: Tue, 16 Oct 2012 22:33:46 -0700 Subject: [gis_info] Expectations of the Government GIS Community In-Reply-To: References: <0481A056C1A53A49B96EB1B744989298010D8A40@mail.dogami.state.or.us> Message-ID: See below on a citizen d submission that was not posted. Jim On Oct 15, 2012 9:48 AM, "Jim" wrote: > The thing is that, this has been happening for 10 years. We have > committees, meetings, task forces. We have policy makers pushing frame > works and standards. We have confrences where attendees are constantly > asking where GIS is going. We have software makers leading this pack of > sheep! And biggest of all there is no enforcement. Folks should be mad as > hell at all of the waste. Over and over both in groups as well as > individual agencies this stuff gets hashed out time and time again with > massive waste streams happening concurrently. Even a better picture is how > each agency has has the ability to charge what they think is appropriate > which is greatly different from one agency to the next and often times not > in the correct coordinate system for Oregon. So they charge me, the > citizen twice, for a service that I already pay for and then it's not > interoperable. That's like buying a TV with only half of the channels > working. Furious and you should be too... > On Oct 15, 2012 8:37 AM, "Rachel Smith" > wrote: > >> Jim,**** >> >> ** ** >> >> Lucky for GIS practitioners, engineers aren't the only group of >> individuals we support. I don't think I need to explain how and why GIS is >> needed, and all of the individuals or groups that need and use GIS and the >> data we create. But if so, then I'm sure there will be plenty of people >> who are on this list to add to that discussion.**** >> >> ** ** >> >> Your points are good ones and they are exactly what many of us discuss on >> a regular basis. Distribution and sharing of data, duplication of data >> creation, authoritative sets of data, etc... are all issues that we're >> trying to work out and are indeed a struggle for all of the agencies. But >> even though we haven't found a solution to these issues, that does not mean >> that we have no professional ethics. There are no easy solutions otherwise >> we would have implemented them by now. **** >> >> ** ** >> >> I certainly don't have all of the answers, but I can tell you that we're >> well aware of these problems and are continually working to find better >> avenues/platforms/portals for distributing and sharing data, and working to >> increase the awareness of GIS related activities that are happening across >> the agencies to prevent duplication of effort.**** >> >> ** ** >> >> Rachel**** >> >> ** ** >> >> Rachel Lyles Smith, GISP**** >> >> Project Operations Manager**** >> >> Geologic Survey & Services**** >> >> ** ** >> >> Oregon Department of Geology & Mineral Industries**** >> >> 800 NE Oregon St. #28, Suite 965**** >> >> Portland, OR 97232**** >> >> 971-673-0481 direct**** >> >> 971-673-1555 main**** >> >> 971-673-1562 fax**** >> >> http://www.oregongeology.org/sub/default.htm**** >> >> ** ** >> >> *From:* gis_info-bounces at listsmart.osl.state.or.us [mailto: >> gis_info-bounces at listsmart.osl.state.or.us] *On Behalf Of *Jim >> *Sent:* Sunday, October 14, 2012 7:06 PM >> *To:* gis_info at listsmart.osl.state.or.us >> *Subject:* [gis_info] Expectations of the Government GIS Community**** >> >> ** ** >> >> How many times are each agency: City, County, State, and Federal >> processing, creating, storing, backing up, generating and purchasing >> maintenance contracts on software while working on the same geospatial >> data? Building footprints is a simple example. Another more relevant >> issue is Lidar. How many times is a DEM, DTM, or DSM is being generated >> from the very same players and why, it just needs to get built once. If I >> procured a DEM from each level of government and compared the similarities >> and differences between them what would the standard deviations, if any.* >> *** >> >> Citizens, like members of this list, expect that the geospatial community >> is following professional ethics and following good judgement when it comes >> to expending taxpayer funds.**** >> >> I talk with the IT folks and they tell me that a position (a Gee Spot) >> they call it, is something that never changes but what does is the >> complexity of the software that is supposed to organize it. Sure they say, >> over beers, that there is relatively minor changes to the built >> environment, sure there are some. The changes to the 5% of the total >> inventory does not warrent 95% of the business strategy including support. >> They site that the cost to serve geospatial is the most costly of most of >> the data IT is responsable for and because of that cost and the complexitys >> really warrants a different approach, they said paper maps were not such a >> bad idea, and prior to GIS engineers were doing just fine.**** >> >> Jim**** >> > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From percyd at pdx.edu Tue Oct 16 23:22:39 2012 From: percyd at pdx.edu (David Percy) Date: Tue, 16 Oct 2012 23:22:39 -0700 Subject: [gis_info] Being Unpopular but doing the right thing In-Reply-To: <20121017044143.2FEF619985D3@swiki.osl.state.or.us> References: <20121017044143.2FEF619985D3@swiki.osl.state.or.us> Message-ID: "don't feed the troll!" [1],[2],[3] :-) [1] http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Don't_feed_the_Troll [2] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Troll_(Internet) [3] http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20060728104716AAONZ9j On Tue, Oct 16, 2012 at 9:41 PM, Thomas, Craig wrote: > Friends, > > ?Jim? is a troll, trying to ruin a perfectly good listserv. Please stop > sending email to him or responding to his posts. Maybe he will go away. If > not, we can just all delete his email and continue to use this fine listserv > as we have been. > > > > Sorry to respond to his post. > > > > Craig > > > > Craig Thomas > > Director > > Energy Programs & Operations > > CALIBRE > > Ph: 703.600.4309 > > Cell: 703.859.3377 > > www.calibresys.com > > > > From: gis_info-bounces at listsmart.osl.state.or.us > [mailto:gis_info-bounces at listsmart.osl.state.or.us] On Behalf Of Jim > Sent: Wednesday, October 17, 2012 12:36 AM > To: Allison Jones; gis_info at listsmart.osl.state.or.us > Subject: Re: [gis_info] Being Unpopular but doing the right thing > > > > Allison, > > I'm not as bitter as you might think. Simply, I have just woke up to what's > going on. Most folks new to GIS find it as a stepping stone to something > else after a short time. It is not an occupation, well some folks think it > is, it is rather a discipline. You can download QGIS at home for free and > learn what you need to in two weeks, differently but in the same way as your > expensive college education. > > For me I'm doing very well I just need to work for two weeks out of the > month, depending. Everybody else has to put in 40hrs a week to get by and > pay on their student loans. > > Jim > > On Oct 16, 2012 9:12 PM, "Allison Jones" wrote: > > Jim, > > I am in the private sector, a recent college graduate who just recently > started my career profession in GIS and Lidar. Surveying is dead Jim. > Move on. The govt is slowly shrinking by lack of funds, ie: they aren't > replacing those that are getting early retirement. If you can't find work > it might be due to: a: your lack of current marketable skills, and b: your > bad attitude. Networking is crucial in this business (that's how I got my > first job) and this state/town/city is very small when you start meeting > people. > > I hope you can figure it out so that you aren't bitter your whole life. > > > On Tue, Oct 16, 2012 at 8:46 PM, Jim wrote: > > As I expected I am becoming unpopular, shucks-this almost hurts my feelings. > > The fact is that I expect this reaction, furthermore the very same folks > trying to expell me are the ones enjoying a day or partial day off from work > to go to an unnecessary meeting, (indirect costs always higher than direct > costs) thinking that more than 60% of members to this list are government > folks, and are lurking to find the next meeting to attend. Stop the waste on > the backs of taxpayers, both struggling, underemployed, and unemployed!!! > Private Sector move in!! > > Jim > > > _____________________________________________________ > gis_info mailing list > gis_info at listsmart.osl.state.or.us > http://listsmart.osl.state.or.us/mailman/listinfo/gis_info > Hosted by the Oregon State Library. The Library is not responsible for > content. > Questions related to message content should be directed to list owner(s) or > the sender of the message, by phone or email. > Technical questions? Call 503-378-8800. > > > > > _____________________________________________________ > gis_info mailing list > gis_info at listsmart.osl.state.or.us > http://listsmart.osl.state.or.us/mailman/listinfo/gis_info > Hosted by the Oregon State Library. The Library is not responsible for > content. > Questions related to message content should be directed to list owner(s) or > the sender of the message, by phone or email. > Technical questions? Call 503-378-8800. > -- David Percy ("Percy") -Geospatial Data Manager -Web Map Wrangler -GIS Instructor Portland State University -gisgeek.pdx.edu -geology.pdx.edu -portlandpulse.org From eric at geospatialtraining.com Wed Oct 17 05:56:25 2012 From: eric at geospatialtraining.com (Eric Pimpler) Date: Wed, 17 Oct 2012 07:56:25 -0500 Subject: [gis_info] Unsubscribe Message-ID: <01fb01cdac66$d18f17f0$74ad47d0$@com> Too many messages from Jim. Eric Pimpler Owner GeoSpatial Training Services, LLC 20770 Highway 281 North, #108-135 San Antonio, TX 78258 210-260-4992 http://geospatialtraining.com http:// geospatialtraining.com/blog http://www.mygiscareer.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From Jay.Mitchell at ky.gov Wed Oct 17 06:51:55 2012 From: Jay.Mitchell at ky.gov (Mitchell, Jay (EEC)) Date: Wed, 17 Oct 2012 09:51:55 -0400 Subject: [gis_info] Unsubscribe In-Reply-To: <01fb01cdac66$d18f17f0$74ad47d0$@com> References: <01fb01cdac66$d18f17f0$74ad47d0$@com> Message-ID: <51B63D642D83CF44AE7588F8A4866CED23EFC11D@AGMBX03.eas.ds.ky.gov> Is there a way we can get Jim kicked from the list? While he does raise some interesting topics for discussion, this list just isn't the place. It might be a good user group meeting topic, though. From: gis_info-bounces at listsmart.osl.state.or.us [mailto:gis_info-bounces at listsmart.osl.state.or.us] On Behalf Of Eric Pimpler Sent: Wednesday, October 17, 2012 8:56 AM To: gis_info at listsmart.osl.state.or.us Subject: [gis_info] Unsubscribe Too many messages from Jim. Eric Pimpler Owner GeoSpatial Training Services, LLC 20770 Highway 281 North, #108-135 San Antonio, TX 78258 210-260-4992 http://geospatialtraining.com http:// geospatialtraining.com/blog http://www.mygiscareer.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From g.e.newkirk at msn.com Wed Oct 17 07:25:14 2012 From: g.e.newkirk at msn.com (Greg and Ericka Newkirk) Date: Wed, 17 Oct 2012 08:25:14 -0600 Subject: [gis_info] Expectations of the Government GIS Community Message-ID: We need to get Jim off this listserv. His comments are unhelpful and he fails to respect the needs and purposes of this forum. Sent from my Windows Phone ________________________________ From: Jim Sent: 10/16/2012 11:33 PM To: Rachel Smith; gis_info at listsmart.osl.state.or.us Subject: Re: [gis_info] Expectations of the Government GIS Community See below on a citizen d submission that was not posted. Jim On Oct 15, 2012 9:48 AM, "Jim" wrote: > The thing is that, this has been happening for 10 years. We have > committees, meetings, task forces. We have policy makers pushing frame > works and standards. We have confrences where attendees are constantly > asking where GIS is going. We have software makers leading this pack of > sheep! And biggest of all there is no enforcement. Folks should be mad as > hell at all of the waste. Over and over both in groups as well as > individual agencies this stuff gets hashed out time and time again with > massive waste streams happening concurrently. Even a better picture is how > each agency has has the ability to charge what they think is appropriate > which is greatly different from one agency to the next and often times not > in the correct coordinate system for Oregon. So they charge me, the > citizen twice, for a service that I already pay for and then it's not > interoperable. That's like buying a TV with only half of the channels > working. Furious and you should be too... > On Oct 15, 2012 8:37 AM, "Rachel Smith" > wrote: > >> Jim,**** >> >> ** ** >> >> Lucky for GIS practitioners, engineers aren't the only group of >> individuals we support. I don't think I need to explain how and why GIS is >> needed, and all of the individuals or groups that need and use GIS and the >> data we create. But if so, then I'm sure there will be plenty of people >> who are on this list to add to that discussion.**** >> >> ** ** >> >> Your points are good ones and they are exactly what many of us discuss on >> a regular basis. Distribution and sharing of data, duplication of data >> creation, authoritative sets of data, etc... are all issues that we're >> trying to work out and are indeed a struggle for all of the agencies. But >> even though we haven't found a solution to these issues, that does not mean >> that we have no professional ethics. There are no easy solutions otherwise >> we would have implemented them by now. **** >> >> ** ** >> >> I certainly don't have all of the answers, but I can tell you that we're >> well aware of these problems and are continually working to find better >> avenues/platforms/portals for distributing and sharing data, and working to >> increase the awareness of GIS related activities that are happening across >> the agencies to prevent duplication of effort.**** >> >> ** ** >> >> Rachel**** >> >> ** ** >> >> Rachel Lyles Smith, GISP**** >> >> Project Operations Manager**** >> >> Geologic Survey & Services**** >> >> ** ** >> >> Oregon Department of Geology & Mineral Industries**** >> >> 800 NE Oregon St. #28, Suite 965**** >> >> Portland, OR 97232**** >> >> 971-673-0481 direct**** >> >> 971-673-1555 main**** >> >> 971-673-1562 fax**** >> >> http://www.oregongeology.org/sub/default.htm**** >> >> ** ** >> >> *From:* gis_info-bounces at listsmart.osl.state.or.us [mailto: >> gis_info-bounces at listsmart.osl.state.or.us] *On Behalf Of *Jim >> *Sent:* Sunday, October 14, 2012 7:06 PM >> *To:* gis_info at listsmart.osl.state.or.us >> *Subject:* [gis_info] Expectations of the Government GIS Community**** >> >> ** ** >> >> How many times are each agency: City, County, State, and Federal >> processing, creating, storing, backing up, generating and purchasing >> maintenance contracts on software while working on the same geospatial >> data? Building footprints is a simple example. Another more relevant >> issue is Lidar. How many times is a DEM, DTM, or DSM is being generated >> from the very same players and why, it just needs to get built once. If I >> procured a DEM from each level of government and compared the similarities >> and differences between them what would the standard deviations, if any.* >> *** >> >> Citizens, like members of this list, expect that the geospatial community >> is following professional ethics and following good judgement when it comes >> to expending taxpayer funds.**** >> >> I talk with the IT folks and they tell me that a position (a Gee Spot) >> they call it, is something that never changes but what does is the >> complexity of the software that is supposed to organize it. Sure they say, >> over beers, that there is relatively minor changes to the built >> environment, sure there are some. The changes to the 5% of the total >> inventory does not warrent 95% of the business strategy including support. >> They site that the cost to serve geospatial is the most costly of most of >> the data IT is responsable for and because of that cost and the complexitys >> really warrants a different approach, they said paper maps were not such a >> bad idea, and prior to GIS engineers were doing just fine.**** >> >> Jim**** >> > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- _____________________________________________________ gis_info mailing list gis_info at listsmart.osl.state.or.us http://listsmart.osl.state.or.us/mailman/listinfo/gis_info Hosted by the Oregon State Library. The Library is not responsible for content. Questions related to message content should be directed to list owner(s) or the sender of the message, by phone or email. Technical questions? Call 503-378-8800. From Greg.Babinski at kingcounty.gov Wed Oct 17 10:00:05 2012 From: Greg.Babinski at kingcounty.gov (Babinski, Greg) Date: Wed, 17 Oct 2012 17:00:05 +0000 Subject: [gis_info] Jim Message-ID: <18937EF56FA8AB48B3B95A071DBF0F041B5DEAEB@MAILSDC2.kc.kingcounty.lcl> If I may make an observation....There have been a number of comments made by someone calling himself 'Jim' on this forum. 'Jim's' comments have elicited reactions from a number of people, each of whom has identified his or herself by name and affiliation in a professional manner. Jim though chooses to remain anonymous, as a coward and bully would. While I am open to hearing all viewpoints, I choose to ignore cowards and bullies. Greg Babinski, GISP King County GIS Center From Joseph_Hayes at co.washington.or.us Wed Oct 17 13:27:14 2012 From: Joseph_Hayes at co.washington.or.us (Joseph Hayes) Date: Wed, 17 Oct 2012 13:27:14 -0700 Subject: [gis_info] gis_info Digest, Vol 116, Issue 11 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <9A0D14B3FEBCFC459DA866E18CE0F26F203025@helios.co.washington.or.us> Word-up Greg! Jim - Go create a blog or something. Joe GIS Tech Washington County -----Original Message----- From: gis_info-bounces at listsmart.osl.state.or.us [mailto:gis_info-bounces at listsmart.osl.state.or.us] On Behalf Of gis_info-request at listsmart.osl.state.or.us Sent: Wednesday, October 17, 2012 12:00 PM To: gis_info at listsmart.osl.state.or.us Subject: gis_info Digest, Vol 116, Issue 11 Send gis_info mailing list submissions to gis_info at listsmart.osl.state.or.us To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit http://listsmart.osl.state.or.us/mailman/listinfo/gis_info or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to gis_info-request at listsmart.osl.state.or.us You can reach the person managing the list at gis_info-owner at listsmart.osl.state.or.us When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of gis_info digest..." Today's Topics: 1. Jim (Babinski, Greg) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Message: 1 Date: Wed, 17 Oct 2012 17:00:05 +0000 From: "Babinski, Greg" To: "gis_info at listsmart.osl.state.or.us" Subject: [gis_info] Jim Message-ID: <18937EF56FA8AB48B3B95A071DBF0F041B5DEAEB at MAILSDC2.kc.kingcounty.lcl> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" If I may make an observation....There have been a number of comments made by someone calling himself 'Jim' on this forum. 'Jim's' comments have elicited reactions from a number of people, each of whom has identified his or herself by name and affiliation in a professional manner. Jim though chooses to remain anonymous, as a coward and bully would. While I am open to hearing all viewpoints, I choose to ignore cowards and bullies. Greg Babinski, GISP King County GIS Center ------------------------------ _______________________________________________ gis_info mailing list gis_info at listsmart.osl.state.or.us http://listsmart.osl.state.or.us/mailman/listinfo/gis_info End of gis_info Digest, Vol 116, Issue 11 ***************************************** From christopher.w.coon at state.or.us Wed Oct 17 15:48:27 2012 From: christopher.w.coon at state.or.us (Coon Christopher W) Date: Wed, 17 Oct 2012 22:48:27 +0000 Subject: [gis_info] (no subject) Message-ID: <915730B52C6F004E9A037EED8C867A95059AF509@WPDHSEXCL04.dhs.sdc.pvt> Unsubscribe gis_info Christopher W. Coon Actuarial Services Unit Office of Health Analytics 503-945-6915(office) 503-302-3374(BB) -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From stealthgis at live.com Wed Oct 17 21:14:17 2012 From: stealthgis at live.com (Jayson) Date: Wed, 17 Oct 2012 21:14:17 -0700 Subject: [gis_info] JIM - Message-ID: Jim, Or should I say James Miller of Gladstone ? Is this your Linked in Page ? http://www.linkedin.com/pub/james-miller/44/a02/a62 This is a Technical List Serve, Not a blog or forum server to argue on, I?ve gotten more emails recently on you, its considered spam for what this server is for. Go argue on your facecrack page, or linkedin page, or what other server does blogs or Discussion Forums.....Why don?t you try ESRI?s Forums... And leave the State of Oregon List Serve to ?Real? Professionals with Respect and conversations of value. Stop wasting everyone?s time reading and going over your emails that shouldn?t be on this server in the first place and should be on a discussion forum or something. If you want to get people involved, you can submit a SINGLE email with a LINK to your separate site where the issue is being discussed. Those that are interested can go, those that are not, don?t have to. But doing it here ?Forces? people to get it, and now your considered spam. And loose any validity or reputation that you had being on here. I, and I?m sure others on the list serve hope you stop, we can all make a phone call to the admin of the list serve. I hope we don?t have to, and that you have some decency and respect to the GIS people and the services of the state for this email list serve. JS OMD IT Support Tech. GIS Analyst -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From cy.smith at state.or.us Thu Oct 18 09:40:24 2012 From: cy.smith at state.or.us (SMITH Cy * CIO) Date: Thu, 18 Oct 2012 16:40:24 +0000 Subject: [gis_info] apologies Message-ID: <1153D380A8408D40A473EDB6B63869D33509EEF4@WPDASEXCL01.ad.state.or.us> My apologies for the disturbance recently. Jim Miller has been unsubscribed. cy Cy Smith, GISP, Oregon State GIO DAS/CIO Geospatial Enterprise Office Secretary, Coalition of Geospatial Organizations (COGO) Past President, Urban & Regional Info Sys Assoc (URISA) Past President, Natl States Geographic Info Council (NSGIC) 503-378-6066 http://gis.oregon.gov -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From milton.e.hill at state.or.us Mon Oct 22 11:41:16 2012 From: milton.e.hill at state.or.us (HILL Milton E * CIO) Date: Mon, 22 Oct 2012 18:41:16 +0000 Subject: [gis_info] Klamath Basin GIS User Grp Mtg Message-ID: Howdy! We are going to have a meeting of the Klamath Basin GIS User Grp on Wed., Oct. 31 from 12:00 - 2:00 pm in the GIS lab (Owens Hall, rm 130) on the OIT campus. Nathalie Smith, ESRI Regional Director/Olympia Office will be speaking to the group. We will also have an OIT student give a presentation on some of the work he did at the Olympia office this last summer as an ESRI Intern. And, of course, URISA will be supplying pizza! It would be great if you could let either Chris Wayne (chris_wayne at nps.gov) or myself know if you will be coming so we can have enough pizza, but don't let that stop you from coming! Hope to see you all here! John 541-885-1495 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From paul.ferro at dogami.state.or.us Tue Oct 23 15:21:42 2012 From: paul.ferro at dogami.state.or.us (Paul Ferro) Date: Tue, 23 Oct 2012 15:21:42 -0700 Subject: [gis_info] Oregon HazVu: Statewide Geohazards Viewer released Message-ID: <0481A056C1A53A49B96EB1B7449892980113E59F@mail.dogami.state.or.us> DOGAMI has released a new interactive web map. Please excuse any cross postings. Oregon HazVu: Statewide Geohazards Viewer provides a way to view many different geohazards in the state of Oregon. You can enter the address for your home, school, business, or public buildings in your area to see what hazards might affect you. You can print the map you create. Geohazards include 100-year flooding, Cascadia Subduction Zone earthquake shaking and tsunami, coastal erosion, volcano, landslide, active faults, earthquake soft soil, and more. Assets include state-owned/leased facilities and public buildings such as schools, police and fire stations, and hospitals, as well as links to seismic assessment reports for these public buildings. Please be aware that not all geohazards have been completely mapped, but this viewer shows the best available data from DOGAMI. Access the HazVu data viewer by linking from the introduction page: http://www.oregongeology.org/sub/hazvu/ HazVu Feedback/User Survey For a limited time, from the map page (http://www.oregongeology.org/hazvu/) or from the feedback page (http://www.oregongeology.org/sub/hazvu/feedback.htm), you can link to an online survey to tell us what you think. Paul Ferro, GISP GIS Analyst | Web Administrator Oregon Department of Geology & Mineral Industries 800 NE Oregon Street, Suite 965 Portland, Oregon 97232-2162 Phone: (971) 673-0628 | Fax: (971) 673-1562 DOGAMI Web Maps -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bruce at kesslergis.com Thu Oct 25 16:47:43 2012 From: bruce at kesslergis.com (Bruce Kessler) Date: Thu, 25 Oct 2012 16:47:43 -0700 Subject: [gis_info] Tip for today and Upcoming GIS Classes Message-ID: <049d01cdb30b$29eca840$7dc5f8c0$@com> Hi all, Here's my tip for today - Use the Maplex Lable Engine for fixing this problem: Before cid:image004.png at 01CDA85D.ADF4AA10 After with Connect features and Minimize density option cid:image003.png at 01CDA85E.1E902DD0 There are too many options to cover here. go and experiment! Web-based ArcGIS Classes: Taught by Bruce Kessler Click the Web link for more info and registration. 10/30 - 11/1 What is GIS and ArcGIS Desktop? $150 more info here A 3-session class covering all the basics. A great class for managers and beginning GIS technicians. 11/5-8/2012 Using ModelBuilder -- $240 more info here A 4-session class introducing the power of ModelBuilder. 11/6-9, 13-16/2012 Understanding and Using Python & ArcPy in ArcGIS -- $540 more info here An 8-session class introducing Python and ArcPy. Other web classes available: What is GIS and ArcGIS Desktop? * Using ModelBuilder * Understanding and Using Python & ArcPy in ArcGIS Basics of SDE with SQL Server Express ArcGIS Server Basics: Installation, Services and Tweaks for .NET (taught by contracted instructor) Using AutoCAD Data in ArcGIS Desktop (taught by contracted instructor) (* Classes available via pre-recorded self-paced sessions and more coming) Would another presentation time or location be better for you? I'll teach most any time for web classes and any location for on-site - even internationally! Why take a class from Bruce Kessler? - NEW! All on-site students receive an on-line Anything Goes GIST session for free! - Classes feel "Custom" - Taught thousands of people - Helps students with their own data during and after class - Worked with ESRI for 12 years. he knows the ropes - He is a "DYNAMIC, KNOWLEDGEABLE TEACHER". Look around Kessler GIS web pages for student and client comments. - 25+ YEARS GIS EXPERIENCE - TEACHING, CONSULTING, PROJECT MANAGEMENT Bruce Kessler, MS, GISP, CTT+ testPure GIS Service! Kessler GIS 20414 W Baker Rd. Cheney, WA 99004 +1 (509) 235-5500 www.kesslergis.com ESRICertifiedDesktopAssoc.bmp esri-CertTrainer_sRGB.png New! Anything Goes GIS T Kessler GIS wants to honor your choice. If you do not want to receive these announcements, simply reply and tell me 'Unsubscribe'. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: image001.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 7323 bytes Desc: not available URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: image002.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 2733 bytes Desc: not available URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: image005.png Type: image/png Size: 11486 bytes Desc: not available URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: image004.png Type: image/png Size: 5931 bytes Desc: not available URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: image003.png Type: image/png Size: 4425 bytes Desc: not available URL: