[or-roots] Finding a place from its name

[Kith-n-Kin]

Fred

Working backwards on this, I went to the 1841 census of Scotland. The
"Fife*" county is called "Fife" and I suggest is the same as Fifeshire.
There is, however, no "Pitferren"

The 1841 has lots of Burts in Dunfermline, as well as the other parishes.
Lots of Addisons (note spelling), 

I did find something called Pittencrieff in Dunfermline. (near where Andrew
Carnegie was born)
I also found streets called Pitreavie Crescent, Pitcorthie Rode, Pitbauchiie
Bank. There is a Pitbauchiie house as well.  All of these are in an area
north of Pitreavie Castle, in the south part of Dunfermline. (this from
Google Maps, not Google Earth)

I looked up "Pit" to see what the prefix meant, and found a great article
called "Placenames and the settlement pattern of dark-age Scotland"

http://www.tarbat-discovery.co.uk/Learning%20Files/Placenames%20and%20the%20
settlement%20pattern%20of%20dark-age.pdf

(E is East, S is South, N is North, W is West)

"Within the present-day placenames of Scotland there are elements of
P-Celtic such as carden (thicket), aber (confluence), lanerc (clearing) and
pert (copse). Of greater importance for settlement studies is the placename
prefix pit, which is the equivalent of the Welsh peth and which in Scotland
referred to 'a share' or 'a portion of land'. The close involvement that
this suggests with the land, in one way or another, is of considerable
importance in trying to gain an insight into the distribution and occupation
of Scotland by the Pictish people, something about which, despite some
recent work (Cottam and Small 1974; Jackson, A 1971; Thomas 1963), all too
little is still known. 

An earlier study of the distribution of the pit placename element
(Whittington and Soulsby 1968), confined to only a S part of the former
Pictish territory, revealed a distinct preference in its location for loamy
soils and well-sheltered and well-drained positions. Coastal situations were
rare. Questions that arose from this study were whether these findings were
repeated throughout the zone of pit occurrence and whether the suggestion
made by some historians that a difference existed between northern and
southern Picts (divided by the mountain barrier known as the Mounth) was
reflected in the placenames. A further query must also be made as to whether
the placenames with this prefix all relate to land exploitation at an early
or a later date in Pictish history and whether the names give any hint as to
the hierarchy, if any, of settlement that existed. To these ends a placename
element other than pit will also be considered and the evidence afforded by
the Pictish symbol stones will be used.

Watson (1926) mentions 323 occurrences of the pit prefix. Many of these he
could not identify, and even of those he could, many have proved impossible
to locate. Some others have
been discovered and a total of 283 has been plotted on fig 1. The overall
distribution is between the S shores of the Firth of Forth and the S of
Sutherland. Within this zone there are two main
concentrations, one particularly strong in the area between the Forth and
the Mounth and the other N of the Mounth to Easter Ross. The main mountain
mass is penetrated by the placenames
up the river valleys, those of the Spey and Tay especially. There are also
interesting occurrences of these placenames outside the main groupings;
those in the Lothians and Lanarkshire, and in the far west in Glenelg and
the Great Glen. The areas of Norse settlement in Shetland, Orkney and the N
and W coasts of the mainland are virtually without examples as is the zone
dominated by the Q-Celts who built up the kingdom of Dalriada after
migration from Ireland. . ."

You should read this article. It is fascinating, and of course, the "Pit"
prefix is predominant around Dunfermline.

I didn't find "Ferren" to go with "Pit" but did find several references to
Pitferren (other than the hundreds of references to Moby Dick, and the other
hundreds of the Burt family <G>).

"Infeftment to Sir Charles Halket of Pitferren Knight and Barronett of the
lands of Knockhouse and the third part of the lands of pitferren and others
holds of his majestie jeu and ward the ward changed to taxt ward for payment
of 50 merks for the ward also much for the releiffe and 100 merks for the
marriage under the Kings hand upon the said Sir Charles his owne
resignation." Whew! From "An Old Scottish Manuscript, a Record of Documents
under the Great and Privy Seals of Scotland. . ." in _The Genealogical
magazine_, Vol 4. The records are not dated. The "magazine" is from 1901.
There are other references to Sir Charles Hackett.

There are other references that sound a bit like Pitferren was also a
surname (Scotland Court of Session, volume 2)

Here you will find some interesting information:

http://www.andysweet.co.uk/placenames/pit/pitfirrane.html
and 

http://www.andysweet.co.uk/placenames/pit-early.html


another has a reference to:

"John, ship carpenter in Kestock of Pitferren"

Ah, hah! I found it. Go here:

http://www.dunfermlinegolfclub.com/club-history

Your gang probably lived/worked for the Halkets.

So, It is in the same area I mentioned before, in the south of Dunfermline.
Now, you need to find out where the rest of your gang lived in Dunfermline.

Thanks for bringing this up. I enjoyed the hunt.

Pat
In Tucson  

-----Original Message-----
From: or-roots-bounces at listsmart.osl.state.or.us
[mailto:or-roots-bounces at listsmart.osl.state.or.us] On Behalf Of
ffarner at coinet.com
Sent: Thursday, June 02, 2011 9:56 AM
To: or-roots mail list
Subject: [or-roots] Finding a place from its name

Hi,
I am usually a stealth member of this list.  I learn a lot but don't feel
I have much to contribute.  The last time I wrote for this list was on the
subject of adult adoptions.  I will formally adopt my Daughter on November
8, 2011.  That is her birthday.

Today I have a problem.  I am attempting to locate two towns in Scotland.

First is: Dun Fermline, Fifeshire, Scotland is the other one.  I'm doing
better on this one.  I have a current location by that name on Google
Earth.  Names associated with this location include: Aedison, Margaret;
Anderson, John; Burt, Agnes [not the same Agnes as above]; Hill, Andrew;
Inglis, Mans; Robertstone, Agnes; Ronnald, Janet; and, Whyte, James.

The other is: Pitferren, Fife, Scotland is the one I am stuck on.  The
family names include Burt, Agnes; Penman, Isabel: and, Sympson, Agnes.

My overriding issue is, are these current day place names correct for the
1600's thru the early 1800's?  Further, I so far cannot find Pitferrn on
any map.

The Burt's lived in both places and inter-married.  I wonder if the two
places might be close together.  I wonder if the Burt's at the two
locations were already related [probably?], or just the name is in common
[I do not think too likely].  I can supply much more complete lists of
names and Birth Dates is that would help.  I just did not see cluttering
the list with all of them.

Thank you in advance for any help,

Fred Farner in La Pine

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